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Title: love over majesty
User: sacinandana_das†††††† Date: 2004-12-20 22:37:57
dear swami gaurangapada , obeisances to you, obeisances to all the beloved devotee's and to the lotus feet of shri nityananda prabhu and shri chaitanya mahaprabhu , all glories to the spiritual masters and acaryas :oops:
Dear swamiji , recently i managed to get caitnya charitamrita and have been enjoying reading this amazing work , but as with all the books i get one of the items they always establish is the supremacy of the lord , as the supreme personality of godhead , but in my reading and listening i have discovered that the topmost loving relationships with lord gaurahari requires that one overcomes the sense of majesty and supremeness of the lord , you can see my problem .........
as this is quite baffling , pls remove the doubts of this matter and allow me to understand how it is possible to attain pure love of god , even when ones heart is in knowledge of the supremacy and majesty of krishna .
your servant ,
User: Swami Gaurangapada Date: 2004-12-26 19:44:56
Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita states that aisvarya shithila gyane nahi mora prita..."I am not so pleased by devotion mixed with awe and reverence of Vaikuntha, Ayodhya and Dvaraka as I am with intimate devotion without awe and reverence of Vrindavana."
Shrila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami is Kasturi Manjari in Radha-Krishna's pastimes, who worships Them without awe and reverence, and he himself has written the above verse, thus he fully realizes that the highest thing is to worship the Lord with pure intimate affection.
Even the gopies of Vrindavana who worship the Lord in pure intimacy are fully aware of the glories and opulences of Lord Krishna. But this knowledge of the glories does not affect their mood towards the Lord in which the awe and reverence is not there.
Similarly the topmost description of the glories of the opulences and position of the Lord in Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita in no way minimize aishvarya mukta prema or love. Infact unless one fully realizes and understands how great God is, one can never develop an intimate relationship with Lord Gauranga-Krishna and one will never be able to appreciate the good fortune of such an intimate relationship which is without awe and reverence.
If one directly jumps to thinking about intimate relationships with the Lord and does not understand the full glories of the Lord, then one can end up being a sahajiya or one who takes bhakti or devotion cheaply.
That is why Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita takes us in the perfect philosophical sequence of achieving love for the Lord as Shrila Krishnadasa Kaviraja is the most expert preacher. No part of Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita is more important than the other.
This discussion can go into much more depth but I will say only this for now.
Title: Re: love over majesty
User: sacinandana_das†††††† Date: 2004-12-26 20:39:15
dear swami gaurangapada ,
Thank-you for your reply ,
in chaitanya charitamrita adi lila ch 3 , verse 16 , it is stated
" knowing my opulences , the whole world looks upon me with awe and veneration , but devotion made feeble by such reverence does not attract me "
Dear swami gaurangapada , it is this verse which prompted me to ask this question ,
simply i wish to understand and follow accordingly the best route , i dont take this cheaply swamiji ,indeed it is the most difficult and trying endeavour i have ever undertaken ,i just wish to understand so i can come to a position of pleasing the lord
i do not know what is sahijya either , but my purpose is to take in as much as i can in this life ,to advance as much as i can in this life ,sure ,every soul would so like to
have the qualifications of the great souls that we read about ,always knowing the right thing to say , how to please the lord greatly and have very intimate relations with him or freindly relationships , but we only have to for a few seconds look at ourselves to realise we are completley un qualified.
However , i find myself in a predicament ,certainly a lot of the things we do and benedicting scriptures we read also chanting of the holy names , brings us to a position of being eligible to be promoted to the transcendental vaikuntha , but having realised that liberation is not the top most goal , i simply wish to take in as much as possible , and keep pleading for devotional service life after life , with all these items in mind i ask about these verses , humbly praying that you will take us a step closer each time to the lord , indeed i have not a doubt in my mind that you are completely capable . i just put all my faith at your lotus feet swami gaurangapada and take whatever remnants and jewels i can , like the local thief !
jaya nityananda jaya gauranga , hare krishna ,
your servant always , sacinandana_das
even things which seem impossible can become possible by remembering the lotus feet of shri chaitanya mahaprabhu , my hope lies here and in the jewel of our blessed nityananda .
User: Swami Gaurangapada Date: 2004-12-27 05:14:43
I know that you are sincere and want to understand the tattva or philosophy very clearly.
I was commenting in general (not referring to anyone) on the dangers of directly jumping to artificial imitative devotion which some try to practice and reject the reading of Bhagavad Gita and other scriptures because there is awe and reverence in those scriptures.
Some even state that the pastimes of Dhruva Maharaja and Prahlada Maharaja in the Shrimad Bhagavatam are not important because they are in awe and reverence and only the gopies pastimes are important. But the Supreme Lord Gauranga Himself heard in raptorous trance the pastimes of Dhruva and Prahlada 100 times each from Shrila Gadadhara Pandita in Shri Tota Gopinatha Temple here in Puri Dhama.
Shrila Shukadeva Goswami also spoke 12 cantos of Shrimad Bhagavatam, because he wanted the readers to first get immersed in the greatness, opulences and incarnations of the Lord and deeply understand how great God is and then and only then can one properly understand the most intimate pastimes of the Lord in the 10th Canto without committing offenses.
Title: Re: love over majesty
User: sacinandana_das†††††† Date: 2004-12-30 23:51:20
Dear swami gaurangapada ,
many thanks for your reply , please excuse my continuation with this subject , i feel i would like to be clearer , i can understand some of what you are saying , but please enlighten me a little further , if a devotee attains to a particular stage by the mercy of guru and gauranga , is it then that the lord takes away from the devotee this sense of majesty or is it that the closer and more purified you become by the chanting process that this sense itself is diluted and love becomes more prominent
or is it something else please help me to understand swamiji, i am struggling to understand this .
your servant sacinandana_das
Title: Re: love over majesty
User: sacinandana_das†††††† Date: 2005-01-05 14:25:01
Thank-you swami gaurangapada ,
for your help with this topic , it is said the supersoul helps from inside and out , and surely by your grace this has been answered for me ,
the verse which answered this i will type for the benefit of others .
By such conclusive studies i know the glories of Lord Chaitanya , only by knowing these glories , can one become strong and fixed in attachment for him .
this verse sums the whole question up for me very nicely .
always desiring the mercy of the pure devotee's of the supreme lords ,