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Question about the Jiva's position

Post Author: Hadai Nityananda dasa    Date: 2007-12-07 08:45:25
Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Dear Swamiji,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. All glories to Sri Sri Radha Krishna. All glories to the assembled devotees of the Lord.

When we meditate on the form of Lord Nityananda, Gauranga, Radha, Krishna etc., our conception that arises in the heart is limited by time and space because our perception operates within, and refers to, the limitations of this material world. So how can we transcend these limitations and meditate on the Lords actual form? We have to understand that meditation is an action of the mind and as long as our minds are not fully spiritualized our meditation cannot be spiritual (cinmaya). Bhakti purifies the mind so that it gradually becomes spiritual and when we meditate with our minds that have become purified, our meditation naturally becomes cinmaya. When Bhajananadi Vaisnavas chant the Lords Name the material world cannot touch them, because they are cinmaya. Internally, they are situated in the spiritual world as they meditate on the Lords daily pastimes and relish the bliss of confidential service. How do we get there? We have to let go of all material doubts and mundane logic and constantly apply ourselves to Sri-Nama. Then spiritual realization will quickly arise within ourselves on its own accord. The more we strive to initiate the flow of Nama-Rasa, the more our material shackles will become loosened. The spiritual dimension will then spontaneously manifest in our hearts.

There are two kinds of jivas: the pure liberated ones (suddha-avastha) and the conditioned ones (baddha-avastha). The baddha jivas vastava vastu (his true substance that is founded in transcendence) is eternal and is a manifestation of the tatasha shakti of the Lord. This means that the jiva exists between the animate objects (cid-vastu) and the inanimate objects (acid-vastu) and can maintain a relationship with both. Pure spiritual entities have no connection with the inanimate objects. This concludes that the jiva is by nature different from both the purely spiritual entities and from dull matter and therefore he is classified as a separate principle.

My question is: when the jivas eternal classification is that it can engage in a relationship with as well as spiritual energy as with material energy, does this mean that although the baddha jiva can become liberated his capability to relate to the material energy is eternally present? Since pure liberated entities dont know what material energy is they cannot relate to the material energy. Is it then possible for the jivas whose manifestation is eternally founded in the tatasha shakti to become purely liberated or is there always the possibility that they can start relating with the material energy again?

In relation to this I have another question. Since the jivas constitutional position is situated in the spiritual world where time is classified as the eternal present moment?(cid-kala) then the fall of the jiva (disconnection with the Lord) can only take place within the context of material time characterized by past, presence, and future (jadhya-kala). Creation, formation, maintenance and falling are under the influence of material time and they can only be of reference after the jiva is bound in this material world. How can there be an after?when our constitutional position is eternally in the present moment? Does it mean that the coverings of the material energy are not real and our bondage in this material jail is nothing but a bad dream? Do we just have to wake up to our original position?

Guruji I would be very happy when you will shine your torchlight of divine knowledge on this.

Your aspiring servant,

Hadai Nityananda dasa

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Post Author: Swami Gaurangapada    Date: 2007-12-08 13:53:35
Is it then possible for the jivas whose manifestation is eternally founded in the tatasha shakti to become purely liberated or is there always the possibility that they can start relating with the material energy again?

It may theoretically be possible as Shrila Prabhupada states but it never happens because when a soul becomes situated in Goloka, there is no question of ignorance ever again...yad gatva na nivartante. The line of tatastha marginal energy is situated not in the material world but in the border of the spiritual world so even the nitya-baddha souls are never manifested from the material energy. Therefore Shrila Prabhupada states that it is an incompatible situation for even the nitya-baddha souls to be in this material world.

Since the jivas constitutional position is situated in the spiritual world where time is classified as the eternal present moment?(cid-kala) then the fall of the jiva (disconnection with the Lord) can only take place within the context of material time characterized by past, presence, and future (jadhya-kala). Creation, formation, maintenance and falling are under the influence of material time and they can only be of reference after the jiva is bound in this material world. How can there be an after?when our constitutional position is eternally in the present moment?

The problem was that marginal souls (us) never were with the Lord on a Vaikuntha planet in the true sense so there was no disconnection. And thus we were actually never under the full influence of cid-kala or the eternal present continuous time in the Vaikuntha and Goloka planets. Thus, the fall of the soul to the material world is a factual truth not just a dream.

Please let me if you have further questions. Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! Jaya Shri Guru Parampara!

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

Post Author: Bhakta Igor    Date: 2007-12-10 10:24:23
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna
'The problem was that marginal souls (us) never were with the Lord on a Vaikuntha planet in the true sense so there was no disconnection."

Several questions:

1.Does it mean that in some unknown time we were 'created' by Supreme Lord? Material universe has it's begin and end, and real eternity of present continuous time is present in spiritual world. If we had never been in spiritual realm does it mean that we were somehow 'created' in some unknown part of time?

2. How to understand that numerous spiritual universes are expanding and manifesting in spiritual sky? Does it mean that there is also some kind of creation? How is it possible when there is no beginning or end? How is than possible anything to be created in spiritual world when everything in spiritual world is eternal?

3.Why some jivas are manifested in spiritual world and have never been in material world and others are manifested in material world and have never been in spiritual world?

Small frog from small pond wanted to understand unlimited ocean...

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

Post Author: Swami Gaurangapada    Date: 2007-12-10 10:49:31
1. Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura states that in Jaiva Dharma that we have to use the word "created" since we are talking about spiritual eternal time in our present position in material time. In the viewpoint of spiritual point, the soul is eternal and unborn just like the Lord, His Associates and Vaikuntha even though it is present originally in the marginal line between the spiritual and material worlds.

2. In the spiritual world of Goloka and Vaikuntha, everything is manifested by the Lord's desire. The unlimited spiritual universes in Goloka are already eternally present from eternal time and there is no need for the Lord to create further any further universes or planets in the spiritual world.

3. Originally the siddha souls manifest to serve Lord Gauranga Krishna directly in the spiritual world. But the Lord desired to also manifest souls who are tatastha or marginal or those who can misuse their free will. But the Lord did not want to manifest such souls directly in Goloka or Vaikuntha as they have a tendency to misuse their free will. So He manifested them in the mariginal line. We should not complain why the Lord made us marginal and not siddha or perfected. We should be eternally grateful to Him that He did manifest us in the first place so that one day we will serve Him in His spiritual planet. If He did not desire to manifest the marginal souls, we would have never existed. We should think of that.

And if you ask the question, why the Lord did not manifest all souls as siddha and why some as siddha in the spiritual world and why some as marginal in the tatastha energy, then the only answer is that you should ask Him. :) One thing I can say though is that even for the marginal souls, the Lord gave them a 50-50 chance to make the right decision by placing them in the marginal energy instead of directly throwing them into His material creation.

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

Post Author: Bhakta Igor    Date: 2007-12-10 12:05:31
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna
Thank you so much for your answer. Anyway, we are here where we are, and best what we can do is to cry out Nityananda Gauranga in hope that some day we will by Grace of Guru and Lord be thrown into the realm of devotion where no doubht exist! Therefore let us chant and dance Nityananda! Gauranga! Nityananda! Gauranga!

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