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Title: Doubts about Puri Dham
User: preetinityanandadasi Date: 2006-06-05 09:13:02
Q. Some say that Jaganath Puri Dham is equivalant to Dwarka Dham since The devotees of Navadweep are in seperation from Lord Chaitanya just like the Vraja vasis are in separation from Krishna when he goes to Dwarka. It is said that Goloka Vrindavan is higher than Dwarka, so does this mean that Navdweep Dham is higher than Jagananth Dham.
No. It is completely incorrect to compare Lord Krishna's leaving Vrindavana and going to Dvaraka and Lord Gauranga's leaving Navadvipa to come to Puri. None of our previous Acharyas have done this kind of comparison. This is apasiddhanta and is a latest invention. When Lord Krishna left Vrindavana, He expanded as Vasudeva Krishna and left for Dvaraka with Akrura and the original Shyamasundara Krishna never left Vrindavana. This is explained by our Acharyas. This is because He was going to Dvaraka to kill Kamsa and the demons and to relish svakiya rasa with the queens, both of which activities the original Lord Shyamasundara Krishna does not do. He kills demons through His expansions like Vasudeva Krishna, Vishnu etc. and He relishes svakiya rasa with the 16,108 queeens of Dvaraka only in His Vasudeva Krishna expansion.
But when Lord Gauranga left Navadvipa Dhaam for Puri Dhaam, He was actually going there to fulfill the actual three innermost, confidential and internal desires of His advent which were to understand the glories of Shrimati Radha's love, to taste His own beauty with the mood of Shrimati Radha, and to taste the same happiness with Shrimati Radha feels in serving Him. So He actually left Navadvipa to come to Puri not as an expansion but in His Self-Same Original form. As only Him in His original form can actually fufill these three internal desires of His advent in Puri. No expansion can do so. So Puri is the Original Abode not an expansion. So to say that it was Lord Gauranga's expansion who came to Puri and thus Puri is inferior to Navadvipa is totally nonsense and mental speculation and it is unsupported by any Vedic scriptures. The external purpose of Lord Gauranga's advent was to spread Naam Sankirtana and deliver this universe. I will write more about this later.
Shrila Prabhupada in Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita: "Similarly, living in Jagannatha Puri is as good as living in Vrndavana. The conclusion is that Navadvipa-dhama, Jagannatha Puri-dhama and Vrndavana-dhama are identical." (Full quote posted later in this message)
Thus Puri Dhaam in non-different from Vrindavana & Navadvipa and some other question on the topic are answered below.
Q. In Jagannatha Puri, there is no mention of any asta-kaliya in the scripture. Only in Navadvipa and Vrndavana, there is the mention of asta-kaliya lila.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
There is a clear mention in Shrila Bhakti Ratnakara when Shrila Shrinivasa Acharya visited Shri Jagannatha Puri Dhama and saw the nitya lila of Lord Gauranga and His associates dancing in Shri Jagannatha Puri Dhama which is eternally going on in this Holy Abode. There is mention in the Hari Vamsa that Shri Jagannatha Puri Dhama is a part of Goloka and Shrimati Shachidevi confirms this in Shri Chaitanya Bhagavata by stating that Navadvipa and Puri are two rooms of the same home (and so is Vrindavana).
Shri Vaishnava Tantra states:
madhura dvaraka lila yah, karoti ca gokule; nilachala sthitah krishnasta, eva charati prabhuh.
"Each and every sweet and mellowful pastime which is performed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna in Gokula Vrindavana, Dvaraka, Mathura etc. is performed by the playful Lord in Shri Nilachala Kshetra Jagannatha Puri Dhama without a doubt."
Please see that this verse does not say only Dvaraka but also all the pastimes in Gokula and Mathura.
Shrla Sanatana Goswami writes in Shri Brihad Bhagavatamrita:
bho gopa-nandana ksetram, idam mama yatha priyam;
tatha shri-mathurathasau janma-bhumir visesatah.
Lord Jagannatha instructed the Gopakumara: "O cowherd boy Gopakumara, as this place of Purshuttoma Kshetra Puri Dhama is very dear to Me, so is Mathura Dhama also very dear to me for it is specifically the land of My birth."
Note: Shri Jagannatha Puri Dhama is as dear to the Lord as Shri Mathura Mandala.
Texts 194 and 195
yadasya darsanotkantha, vraja-bhumer abhut taram;
tada tu shri-jagannatha- mahimna sphurati sma me
yamunatvena niladri-bhogo govardhanatmana
"When I yearned to see Vrajabhumi, by Lord Jagannatha's mercy and glory the gardens there became the Shri Vrndavana forest, the ocean became the Yamuna, and Nilachala Hill manifested as Govardhana."
Note: All the transcendental pastime places in Shri Vrindavana Dhama are present in Shri Jagannatha Puri Dhama, so the eternal pastimes of the Lord are also eternally present.
Q. Jagannatha Puri is only a prakasa of Dvaraka.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
This statement is refuted by the above verses from the Vaishnaviya Tantra and Brihad Bhagavatamrita.
Can you please quote scriptural pramana for the above statement that Puri is ONLY a prakasa of Dvaraka and for other statements like Shrila Jagadananda Pandita is not Shrimati Satyabhama devi (which is against what has been said in Gaura Gannodesha Dipika), Shrila Haridasa Thakura is not a Rasika Vaishnava (which is against what has been said in Hari Nama Chintamani), Shrila Chota Haridasa had an affair with Shrimati Madhavi devi (which is against what has been said in Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Anubhashya) and so on.
Shri Jagannatha Temple may be considered as Kurukshetra or Dvaraka and gopies are pulling the Ratha to Vrindavana but then Shri Gundicha Temple Sundarachala should be understood as Shri Vrindavana Dhaam. Our Acharyas states that the gardens of Shri Yameshwar Tota are also non-different than Vrindavana since Shrimati Radharani Herself as Shri Gadadhara Pandita resides there eternally and serves Her beloved Lord Tota Gopinath, Who is not stone but directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna Himself. How can Shrimati Radharani Herself reside in a place which is only prakasha of Dvaraka and nothing else? Sorry, I simply refuse to accept this imaginative theory as there is no shastric proof.
Ok, even if we theoretically consider than Shri Puri Dhama was Dvaraka or Vaikuntha before, it cannot remain so when the Supreme Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu personally came here with His highest Mahabhava of Shrimati Radharani. Shrimati Radharani nevers goes to Dvaraka so Shri Jagannath Puri Dhaam cannot be only Dvaraka. It has to be Vrindavana. Shri Gadadhara Pandita states in Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita that wherever the lotus feet of Lord Gauranga are there, it is no doubt directly Shri Vrindavana Dhama, so how can Puri Dhama simply be a prakasha of Dvaraka Dhama when the original Supreme Lord (not the Vasudeva expansion of Dvaraka) resided here for 18 years.
Also Mahaprabhu revealed His confidential pastimes only to a few devotees in Puri. Also there was so much Aiswarya in His pastimes in Puri, such as body becoming like a tortoise.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
Sorry that is not Aishwarya, those symptoms are of the Mahabhava of Shrimati Radharani. Your understanding is muddled up. When Lord Gauranga is there, who is a combination of Mahabhava and Rasaraja, how can there be simply Aishvarya? Please provide a single statement from any scripture that Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu's pastimes in Puri Dhama are aishvarya and His associates are aishvarya as being claimed and then it can be considered. How can Lalita and Vishakha who are Ramananda and Svarupa be in aishvarya? How can their singing be aishvarya? Gambhira Dhama is non-different from the most confidential nikunjas of Vrindavana Dhama and the highest vraja Adhirudha Madanakhya Mahabhava and Vipralambha moods are been manifested in Gambhita Dhaam eternally. The three internal desires of Lord Krishna were fulfilled in Gambhira Dhaam which are not even normally fulfilled in Vrindavana Dhama. So how can Puri Dhaam which includes Gambhira Dhaam, simply be a prakash of Dvaraka. Considering it only an expansion of Dvaraka is offense (aparadha) to Shri Jagannatha Puri Gambhira Dhaam.
Q. Gopa-kumara in Brhad Bhagavatamrtam is always hankering to go back to Vrndavana.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
Infact when he went to Vrindavana Dhama, he hankered to come back to Puri Dhama because Lord Jagannatha showed him the whole Vraja in Puri Dhama and he immediately wanted to return back to Puri Dhama even after reaching Mathura Dhama.
Shri Brihad Bhagavatamrita of Shrila Sanatana Goswami confirms this:
atha sandarsanotkantha, jagad-isasya sajani;
yayedam sunyavad viksya, purusottamam asmaram
Gopakumara said after arriving in Mathura: "My longing to see Lord Jagannatha making me see everything as if it were a desert even in Shri Mathura Dhama. Thinking like that he remembered Purusottama-kshetra Shri Puri Dhama and he left Vrindavana for Puri Dhama again."
Shrila Prabhupada confirms the statement of Shri Vaishnava Tantra in his beautiful purport to Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita, Madhya Lila 22.132:
Shrila Narottama dasa Thakura has sung:
shri gauda-mandala-bhumi, yeba jane cintamani, tara haya vrajabhumi vasa
"One who understands the transcendental nature of Navadvipa and its surrounding area, where Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu enacted His pastimes, resides always in Vrndavana.” Similarly, living in Jagannatha Puri is as good as living in Vrndavana. The conclusion is that Navadvipa-dhama, Jagannatha Puri-dhama and Vrndavana-dhama are identical.. So if you do not accept this conclusion of Shrila Prabhupada himself then I have nothing to say.
Q.So one should be under the anugatya of a high-class vaishnava.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
It is offense to say or imply that only my Guru is high-class devotee in this world and nobody else is. Because Guru Tattva is one. That anugatya can also be through Vani as described by Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada:
"Even though in this world we don’t get to meet many devotees from the spiritual world, the conversations and pastimes of the devotees of Mahaprabhu’s time eternally exsist in the form of books and sound, and that is why we do not feel so much pain from material troubles. If we live here in the association of the words of the spiritual world, then the memory of this association will keep us at a distance from material misery."
Q. I doubt if Bhaktivinoda Thakura ever said to chant Nitai and Gauranga's names on the beads.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
He does. He clearly establishes and authorizes the japa chanting of the 4-syllable Gauranga Mantraraja (Gaura Gopala Mantra) in his Amrita Pravaha Bhashya to Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita Antya-lila 2.31 where we find that Shrila Shivananda Sena was chanting constant japa of the Gauranga Mantra as it was his ishta mantra. An ishta mantra is primarily chanted in japa form.
Purport by Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his Amrita-pravaha-bhashya:
gaura-gopala-mantra gauravadi gana 'gauranga' name chatura-aksara gaura-mantra ke uddesya karena; kevala krishnavadi gana ei gaura-gopala-mantra sabde radha-krsnera chatura-aksara-mantrake uddesya karena.
"The following is the explanation of the Gaura-gopala mantra. The followers of Lord Gauranga accept 'Gauranga' as the four-syllable mantra and the followers of only Krishna accept 'Radha-Krishna' as the Gaura-gopala mantra. The followers of both Lord Gauranga and Lord Krishna accept either one of them as the Gaura-gopala mantra understanding that They are
non-different from each other."
Shrila Prabhupada in Cc Antya-lila 2.31 purport: “Worshipers of Shri Gaurasundara accept the four syllables gau-ra-an-ga as the Gaura mantra, but pure worshipers of Radha and Krishna accept the four syllables ra-dha krs-na as the Gaura-gopala mantra. However, Vaishnavas consider Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu nondifferent from Radha-Krishna (shri-krishna-chaitanya radha-krishna nahe anya). Therefore one who chants the mantra “gauranga” and one who chants the names of Radha and Krishna are on the same level.”
Please also see my multimedia presentation of Shrila Prabhupada on Nityananda Gauranga Naam here: "http://naam-yoga.com/sp.html".
Q. Also nowhere it is mentioned that, you should chant Krishna's name less than Gauranga's name.
Answer by Swami Gaurangapada:
No one has said this. There is no question of one Holy Name being less than the other because both are the Names of the same Personality Lord Gauranga Krishna. If anyone considers one Name lesser or higher than the other it is an offense.
Even then considering the practical offensive situation of the Kali souls, it is mentioned that Nityananda Gauranga's Names are more beneficial to the conditioned souls by our acharyas as follows:
Shrila Prabhupada in Cc Adi-lila 8.31 purport: “It should be noted in this connection that the holy names of Lord Krishna and Gaurasundara are both identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore one should not consider one name to be more potent than the other. Considering the position of the people of this age, however, the chanting of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s name is more essential than the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra because Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the most magnanimous incarnation and His mercy is very easily achieved.”
Note: Here Shrila Prabhupada clearly states that the chanting Gauranga's Name is more essential than the chanting of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra.
Seventh Goswami Shrila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Navadvipa-dhama-mahatmya Chp 1:
kali jivera aparadha asankhya durvara; gauranga-nama vina tara nahika uddhara.
"The offenses and sins of the living entities in Kali-yuga are unlimited and absolutely insurmountable. That is why the souls can never ever be delivered without the regular chanting the most merciful name of Gauranga."
Please patiently read the full below commentary of Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada and you will see that so many times he says in this commentary that chanting of Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga is more important and beneficial than the chanting of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra in the conditioned stage and to give us qualification for the Hare Krishna Mahamantra. He specifically states that Nityananda Gauranga Nama are the GRAHANAKARI NAMA for the conditioned souls.
ANUBHASHYA PURPORT BY SHRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA
PRABHUPADA (Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita Adi 8.31):
Bengali: krishna-nama aparadhera vicara karena, gaura-nityanandera name aparadhera vicara nai. aparadhi krishna-nama grahana karilei kakhanei nama-phala (krishna-prema) labha karena na. aparadhi thaka-kaleu gaura-nityanandera nama grahanakari nama karite karite aparadha mocanante nama-phala labha karena. ihara vicara o siddhanta ei je-gaura-nityanandera nikata krishna-vimukha sadhaka krishna unmukha haibara janya gamana karena. ara sadhanasiddha, anarthamukta krishnanmukera uccarya krishna-nama anarthayukta avasthaya kakhanei phala (krishna-prema)pradana kare na. gaura-nityananda anarthayukta jivera sevya-vastu haoyaya tahadera seva jivera krishnaseva apeksa adhiktara prayojaniya. sadhaka siksara apraptite siddhabhimane krishna-namera seva karite udyata haile tahara anarthaei asiya upasthita haya; kintu nitai-gaurera bhajane siddhabhimanera chalana na rakhiya anarthayukta avasthayeo jagadguru siksaka dvayera nikata upasthita haile tahara tahadigake anarthamukta karaiya tanhadigera svayam-rupa o svayam-prakasa svarupa uplabdhi karana. tahatei jivera svarupa-jnanera udaya haya.
Translation: "The Hare Krishna Mahamantra considers the offenses whereas the Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga don't consider offenses. An offensive chanter will never achieve the fruit of chanting (pure love for Krishna) simply by chanting the Hare Krishna Mahamantra."
(THE SECRET OF ALL SECRETS)
(Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta continues): "THEREORE TILL THE TIME HE IS COMMITTING OFFENSES, HE SHOULD REGULARLY CHANT THE NAMES OF Nityananda and Gauranga WHICH ARE THE GRAHANAKARI-NAMA (MOST IMPORTANT NAMES TO BE ACCEPTED AND CHANTED) FOR THE SADHAKA IN THE ANARTHA-YUKTA STAGE. DUE TO THE *REPEATED CHANTING (KARITE KARITE) OF THE NAMES OF Nityananda and Gauranga, ALL THE OFFENSES WILL BE DESTROYED AND HE WILL VERY QUICKLY ACHIEVE THE FRUIT OF THE CHANTING, PURE LOVE OF KRSNA."
(Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada continues) "The philosophical principle behind these statements is as follows - The aspirant who is averse to Lord Krishna approaches Lords Nityananda and Gauranga to become attracted to Lord Krishna. The Hare Krishna Mahamantra can only be uttered purely by the sadhaka who is on the perfected stage (sadhana-siddha) and who is free from all anarthas (unwanted things in the heart). If sadhakas full of offenses chant only the Mahamantra, the Mahamantra will never give them love for Krishna.
"Thus Lords Nityananda and Gauranga and Their Holy Names are the most worshipable Lords for the souls who are full of offenses. That is why Their service and the service of Their Names, Abode and Pastimes is more appropriate and beneficial for these unfortunate souls than even the service of Lord Krishna. If the sadhaka without hearing proper instructions, proudly thinks himself to be on the perfected stage and tries to render direct service to the Hare Krishna Mahamantra by chanting it without regularly chanting the Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga, then the ten offenses will surely come and bar his progress. On the other hand, if the sadhaka who is full of offenses, gives up his sense of false pride of thinking himself on the perfected stage, and thus approaches the Names of the two Jagadgurus Lords Nityananda and Gauranga, worships Them and accepts Their instructions, Their Pastimes and Their devotees, They will quickly deliver him from all offenses and reward him with the realization of Their own forms (svarupas) of Svayam-Rupa (Lord Gauranga) and Svayam-Prakasa (Lord Nityananda). Then the soul realizes one own constitutional position in relation with the two Lords and thus achieves the supreme perfection."
Bengali: krishna-nama o gaura-nama,-ubhayei namira sahita abhinna. krishnake gaura apeksa laghu va sankirna baliya janile, uhake avidyara karya baliya janite haibe. prakrtapakse jivera prayojana-vicare shri gaura-nityanandera nama grahanera upayogita adhiktara. shri gaura-nityananda udara evam audaryera abhyantare madhura. krsnera udarta-kevala mukta, siddha ashritajana ganera upara; gaura-nityanandera audarya-srote anarthayukta aparadhi jiva bhogamaya aparadhera haste
haite mukta haiya gaura-krsnera pada-padma labha karena.
English translation (Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada continues): "The name of Krishna and Gauranga-both are non-different than the named Lord. Those who think that Krishna is any way inferior or limited than Gauranga are in gross ignorance."
(PRAYOJANA-VICARE - MORE USEFUL)
(Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada continues): "BUT IN PRACTICAL (PRAYOJANA) CONSIDERATIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE BENEFIT AWARDED TO THE CONDITIONED SOULS, THE CHANTING OF Nityananda and Gauranga'S NAME IS **MORE USEFUL AND HELPFUL** FOR EVERY LIVING ENTITY. THE MERCY OF LORD KRISHNA'S NAME IS GENERALLY ONLY UPON THE LIBERATED OR PERFECTED SOULS WHO ARE FULLY SURRENDERED TO HIM. BUT THE MAGNANIMITY AND MERCY OF LORD GAURANGA-NITYANANDA'S NAMES IS ESPECIALLY FOR THE SOULS WHO ARE OFFENDERS AND FULL OF ANARTHAS AND DESIRES FOR MATERIAL SENSE GRATIFICATION."
(Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada continues)
"The chanting of Lord Nityananda and Gauranga's names and Their worship very quickly delivers the soul from all the offenses and thus the soul achieves shelter at the lotus feet of Lord Gauranga-Krishna."