Who came first: Gauranga or Radha Krishna?

Live Temple Room Satsanga: 2nd May 2005:
10.15 - 11 pm, Indian Standard Time.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Chapter 1: Mangalacarana: Prema Vivarta by Shrila Jagadananda Pandita.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "The loving affairs of Shri Shri Radha and Krishna are transcendental manifestations of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving-potency. Although Radha and Krishna are one in Their identity, They have separated Themselves eternally. Now these two transcendental identities have again united in the form of Shri Krishna Chaitanya. I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Shrimati Radharani, although He is Krishna Himself."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          You see this is most unique feature of Lord Gauranga's incarnation

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          In Lord Gauranga's form, the energetic and energy have become one

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          I will ask you questions

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Who is the Supreme Energetic please?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          The Source of All Energy

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          that is Krishna right

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes, Lord Krishna

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Who is the Supreme Energy of the Lord from whom all other Energies are emanating?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          What is the answer?

 

 - chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          Radharani

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes Shrimati Radharani

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Why has the Energy separated from the Energetic?

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          for the pleasure of Krishna

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Right, for the pleasure of the Energetic Lord Krishna

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Are They separate originally?

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          I would say no

 

 - amit says:

          no they dont swami ji i think

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Are Energetic and Energy separate originally?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          No, They are not

 

 - chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          I would think they can never be separate

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          They can't exist one without each other...

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          What is the purpose of the Energy if the Energy cannot serve the Energetic and give Him enjoyment?

 

 - chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          because energetic always creates energy

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes, you are all correct, very nice

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          yes Radha is always trying to serve Krishna, and Krishna is always trying to serve Radha i heard

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          So although Radha-Krishna are one

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          They separated Themselves for the eternal enjoyment and pastimes

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          This is also a pastime.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Because They can never be separated in truth

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          Eternal

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          Without no beggining and end

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          by remembering the loving ways of Radharani towards Krishna one learns how to serve Krishna

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          But as They manifested Their eternal pastimes, Lord Krishna who is God Himself begin to marvel at the unlimited bliss of His energy Shri Radha

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          His Energy Shrimati Radha experienced millions of times more bliss than the Lord would experience in the pastimes with His own Energy Radha

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          This is power of Bhakti Or Pure Unalloyed Devotion

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          I don't understand

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          wow the devotee feels so much pleasure in serving the Lord

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Matus, please explain

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          I don't understand: His Energy Shrimati Radha experienced millions of times more bliss than the Lord would experience in the pastimes with His own Energy Radha

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          i believe that Radha experienced joy cause she was personally serving Krishna, her joy came from loving Krishna

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes, the pure devotional service to Lord Krishna is even higher than Lord Krishna Himself

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          Ok, now I think I'm getting it slowly...

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          So while serving Him, the devotee experiences such high levels of bliss which Lord Krishna also desires to taste.

 

 - Ronald McCarthy says:

          because we would be in our rightful place, by serving and devotion?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          That is why we come to the net paragraph: "That absolute principle sometimes manifests Himself as two - Shrimati Radharani and Shri Krishna - and sometimes as one Supreme Absolute in the form of Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Both these forms are eternal

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          We come to the next para: "The Supreme Truth is one without a second, and there is no difference between the Lord and His absolute potency. Yet simultaneously, there is an eternal difference between the two, hence the entire Vedic literature emphasizes the principle that the Supreme Lord's potencies are inconceivably one and different from the Lord Himself."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Radha-Krishna and Gauranga's Pastimes are eternally going on in the spiritual world.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Because God can exist in many places at the same time, not like us.

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          ok, I was wondering about it before...

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          So it's upon us, which pastime we choose..to join?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          When He can take thousands of Forms in the rasa dance with the Gopies and 7 simultaneous Forms in the Jaganntha Puri Ratha Yatra, what is the difficulty for Him?

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          or can we join more at the same time?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          But His two principal forms are Radha-Krishna and Gauranga

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Which are the Origin of all forms

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes, Matus, a soul can choose to participate in both the pastimes of Radha-Krishna and Gauranga simultaneously

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          isnt Krishna the originator of all forms, he says in the Gita - all things emanate from him

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          Great

 

 - chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          but do we go there unless we die?

 

 - chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          i thought the spiritual place was a place to go after death

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          We go there when we achieve 100% perfection in Bhakti while living or dying

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          i heard it is possible to enter you spiritual form when you are in this body

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "The Supreme Absolute Truth is the embodiment of knowledge, samvit, His sandhini potency sustains His own existence of all others, and His pastimes are carried out by His hladini potency. Thus He manifests Himself by these three principal potencies and their innumerable sub-potencies."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          God has got three main energies

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Samvit -> Knowledge (Chit) Potency -> Gauranga Krishna Himself

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Sandhini -> Eternity (Sat) Potency -> Nityananda Balarama

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Hladini -> Pleasure (Ananda) Potency -> Radha

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          These have innumerable sub potencies.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "The Supreme Absolute Truth manifests Himself through His multifarious transcendental potencies, and everything is achieved through the interaction of these potencies. Thus, dynamic exchanges of pure emotions are eternally exhibited in the indivisible Supreme, yet the energy and the Energetic are always non-different."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "The loving affairs of Shrimati Radharani and Shri Krishna, are transformations of the 'hladini shakti' or the pleasure potency. And it is this inconceivable potency which maddens Radharani and Krishna. The hladini possesses the extraordinary capacity to make the impossible happen, without Herself being affected; She is also responsible for creating variagatedness in transcendence."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "Thus, Shrimati Radharani and Lord Krishna entered into one transcendental form which presently appears as my dearmost Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu. And when I say 'presently' do not mistakenly judge this according to the mundane time factor. Remember, the transcendental truth is beyond the influence of time. Thus to say that Shrimati Radharani and Lord Krishna appeared before Lord Chaitanya, who made His appearance recently, would be an attempt to impose material inebrieties like time and chronological order on Them. This misconception will totally alienate us from the eternal Truth."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          So Prahlada dasa, this answers your question

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          We can never say who came first Radha-Krishna or Gauranga.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Both are the Original and Eternal.

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          sorry i dont have an answer, i received a phone call and couldnt pay attention

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Gauranga may have appeared before our vision only 500 years back and Radha-Krishna appeared 5000 years back...

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          But that does not mean that Gauranga is later and Radha-Krishna is first

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Both are Original

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Just like when the Sun rises in the morning, do we say that the Sun was born in the morning and was not there before sunrise..

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Does the Sun take birth every morning and die every night?

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          no the sun doesnt die, it is there always, it is just in a different place at night.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes and the when it appears in front of our vision, it cannot be considered that it is born at that time.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          It is already there, it just appears at dawn.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Similarly Gauranga advented 500 years ago does not mean that He was not there before that.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          He just appeared in front of us, among us to deliver us in Kali Yuga.

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          In the spiritual world, do Radha-Krishna & Gauranga have Their Forms, which They manifested on earth?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Yes, the Same, They come with Their Self-Same forms, Associates, Names, Abode, Paraphernalia etc.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          They all descend together not Alone.

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          Sometimes it's hard for me to imagine This, for Lord is so big end endless...

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          They bring the spiritual world down with Then which manifests here as the Dhama, it is replica of the spiritual world.

 

 - Prahlad das says:

          how nice, Krishna has people who descend just to play a role in his pastimes.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          When the US President came to India, He came with His own plane, the A1 fleet

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          with hundreds and thousands of his own ministers

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Then why can't God descend with His own Energies and Paraphernalia

 

 - Matus Kmit says:

          This I understand.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "Do not waste valuable time uselessly trying to debate who appeared first - Shrimati Radharani and Lord Krishna or the son of Shrimati Sacidevi, Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu. Earlier I explained that everything is perfectly adjusted on the transcendental plane. Thus, be extra cautious before you enter into a debate about who appeared first - Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu or Shri Krishna."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "The two qualities, namely simultaneity and eternality are characteristic of the absolute reality which finds full expression in transcendental truth. Uninterrupted spiritual pastimes are the supreme excellences of this transcendental truth."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          "The pleasure-giving hladini potency simultaneously shelters two truths, as far as I know. One is pranaya, or loving exchange, and the other is vikara, or the transformation of that love or the pastimes between Shrimati Radharani and Shri Krishna. That transcendental potency has now appeared in this material world in the form of Lord Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu. He roams along the banks of the Ganges, constantly performing congregational chanting of the holy name of God."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          So Radha-Krishna is PRANAYA and Gauranga is VIKARA

 

 - chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          loving exchanges and service?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          loving exchanges is Radha Krishna and the transformation of the loving exchanges is Gauranga

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Now we come to the most surprising statement by Shrila Jagadananda Pandita: "The pastimes of Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu are even more ecstatic than the pastimes of Lord Shri Krishna. In Lord Gauranga's lila the loving exchanges reach their quintessence. When this love achieved excessive heights, hladini, or the pleasure potency of the Lord, embraced Krishna with feelings of great ecstasy and covered Him with the mood and luster of Shrimati Radharani."

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          This is one of the best descriptions about why Radha Krishna became Gauranga.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          So Gauranga's form is manifested when the pleasure potency pastimes reaches the apex, that is why Gauranga's Name, Form, Pastimes, Abodes are even more ecstatic than Radha Krishna as stated here by Shrila Jagadananda Pandita even though They are non-different to each other.

 

- chandrika gauranga dasi says:

          yes but how can their be a limit to the pleasure potency?

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          It is forever increasing, it has no limit but still it has a summit.

 

 - Swami Gaurangapada says:

          Shrila Jagadananda Pandita continues: "Lord Krishna, appearing in His full manifestation as Gauranga Mahaprabhu, came to His own abode Navadvipa-dhama where He felt a much greater pleasure than in Vraja-dhama. He appeared in Navadvipa to fulfill the specific purpose of His incarnation and to relish His heart's desire."