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Devotee: Have you read Srila Prabhupdda's Final Order? And if so
then how can you say that the rtviks are the 14th sahajiya sampraddya'}Narasingha
Maharaja: Actually the rtviks are not a sampraddya. By saying so I am simply
using the word loosely. The rtvik conception is in the apa'Sampradaya category
or the anti-party section. Apa'Sampradaya means to preach against the
principles and practices of pure devotional service and sahajiya means to
imitate the real process of pure devotional service.In this way the rtviks have
become both sahajiya and pa'Sampradaya their process eliminates the real thing
and tries to establish an illusory standard under false pretenses.In the same
way one could consider the rtviks as Mayavadis.Mayavada means the philosophy of
illusion. There is no actual Mayavada philosophy mentioned in the scriptures
nor is there any rtvik system mentioned in the scriptures. So to establish
either of these two onclusions is illusory.It is a symptom of Kali-yuga that
many concocted methods of devotional service will emerge, but these will not be
accepted by the intelligent class of devotees.Srila Prabhupada (A. C.
Bhaktivedanta SvamI Maharaja) has said,"The next symptom of the age of
Kali is that principles of religion, which are spotless white, like the white
lotus flower, will be attacked by the uncultured iudra population of the age.
They will declare themselves as adherents of no religious principles and many
'isms' and cults will spring up in Kali-yuga only to kill the spotless bull of
Instructions regarding the actual science of Krsna consciousness and the process of pure devotional service have been passed down from guru to disciple in the parampard from the most ancient times until the present day. When we are connected with the parampard system, we do not feel the necessity for concocted methods of devotional service because all our anticipations are met by Krsna, guru and Vaisnava.Devotee:
That's true but there are no pure devotees present and therefore seeing the situation Srila Prabhupada has introduced a new system of parampara.Narasingha Maharaja: What you say is all concoction. Have you seen all the devotees of Krsna and Mahaprabhu present on this planet? No. But you condemn everyone to your own level of consciousness. Like Duryodhana he could not see any qualified person anywhere. Whereas Yudhisthira saw that everyone was more qualified than himself. Persons with the mentality of Duryodhana can never understand who is a pure Vaisnava yet those like Yudhisthira always find the company of pure devotees.The fact is that there are pure Vaisnavas on this planet (always have been, always will be) but you have not taken the time to search them out. Secondly, what you have said about Srila Prabhupada not seeing any qualified person is also not true. He did not see a disciple fit to become the head of his ISKCON society and therefore he requested everyone to work in cooperation with each other (with a GBC at the head). He said, "Together I have some hope that you will do something." But he did not say that his disciples were unfit to carry on the parampard.One who introduces new systems, not authorized by the sdstra and previous dcdryas only creates a disturbance in society.
sruti'Smrti'purdnddi pancardtra'Vidhim vina
aikdntiki harer bhaktir utpdtdyaiva kalpate
"Devotional service to the Lord that ignores the authorized
Vedic literature like the Upanisads, Purdnas, Narada-Pancardtra, etc., is
simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.
(Bhakti-rasdmrta'Sindhu.I.2.I0I.)Srila Prabhupada never created or concocted
new systems. He simply said, "Do as I am doing."Devotee: Actually
Srila Prabhupada was the first sannydsi to perform the marriage function
ceremony for his disciples so that is at least one example of his starting a
new system.Narasingha Maharaja: That is a foolish argument. Performing marriage
or not performing marriage ceremonies has nothing to do with the parampard or
the process of pure devotional service.That simply comes within 'ways and
means' to spread Krsna consciousness it is not a valid example of what we are
talking about.Devotee: Nonetheless, I think it is safe to say that since none
of Srila Prabhupada's disciples are pure devotees that no one should initiate.
Narasingha Maharaja: This is another one of your concocted statements. Show me even one place where Srila Prabhupada has said or written that none of his disciples are pure devotees. You cannot.On the contrary Srila Prabhupada many times stated the qualifications to become a pure devotee and insisted that this was the only business of his disciples. He did not say, "None of my disciples are pure devotees." He actually stated many times just the opposite. First we should know what pure devotional service is.
anydbhildsita Sunyam jMna'karrnady'andvrtam
anukulyena krsndnU'Silanam bhaktir uttama
"First class devotional service must be devoid of all material desires, knowledge obtained by monistic philosophy, and frutive action. The devotee must constandy serve Krsna favorably, as Krsna desires." (Bhahxasamrta-smdnu 1.1.11)Devotee: Yes. But Narasingha Maharaja: But what? Do you believe in Srila Prabhupada and what he says or do you think he spoke nonsense? What is your position?Srila Prabhupada has stated on many occasions that his disciples were pure devotees to the extent that they follow his instruction. The key is there in your hand simply follow his instruction. In 1975 Srila Prabhupada commented that he wanted disciples who would follow his instructions and become pure devotees. He said that he would have been satisfied if even one of his disciples had become a pure devotee but that he was fortunate because Krsna had sent many pure devotees to become his disciples.Srila Prabhupada told,"I want one student who follows my instruction. I don't want millions. Ekas' conchas tamo hand na ca tarah'Sahasras'ah. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for illumination. There is no need of millions of stars. So my position is that I want to see that at least one disciple has become pure devotee. Of course, I have got many sincere and pure devotees. That is my good luck. But I would have been satisfied if I could find out one only."Devotee: But the final order of Srila Prabhupada is there.Narasingha Maharaja: Yes, the final order is there, the first order is there and the second order is there. All the orders are there and all these orders are the same, "Become pure devotee."If not even a single disciple (as you are proposing) becomes pure devotee then the mission of the spiritual master is a failure. If no disciple has become a pure devotee then people will begin to rumor that the spiritual masters' teachings have no potency or that he has no mercy to bless his disciples, etc. So when you say that no disciple of Srila Prabhupada is qualified to become guru then in effect you are saying that Srila Prabhupada and his mission have failed. It is intolerable to hear such nonsense I cannot agree with you.
Devotee: They can become siksd'guru but not diksd'guru.Narasingha Maharaja: Where do you find such statements in the authorized sdstral You are simply speaking without any sdstric context. And what you say is only confused logic.The slksd-guru is categorically in a higher position than the diksd'guru.The siksdguru is the manifestation of Sri Govindadeva, the Lord of abhidheya-tattva and the diksd'guru is the manifestation of Madana-mohanaji the Lord of sambandha'tattva. The siksd'guru is categorically higher than the diksa-guru.In Caitanya-caritdmrta the position of diksd and siksd-gurus are mentioned. Categorically it is such, but to make discrimination between different gurus is an offense. Both are equal manifestations of Krsna. If one is a pure devotee according to the measure of the Sdstra then he is fit to become either siksd or diksa-guru or both.Devotee: But so many, what you are calling pure devotees, have fallen down a pure devotee cannot fall down.Narasingha Maharaja: Oh. This is very interesting point that you are making. On one hand you say that a pure devotee cannot fall down but on the other hand you are of the opinion that all living entities in the material world have fallen from eternal lild with Krsna in Goloka or Vaikuntha, is it not?Devotee: Yes. But NarasinghaMahardja: So, in the spiritual world, were these fallen souls pure devotees or not? If they are not pure devotees, then how can they be with Krsna in eternal lild.} Therefore, by your own admission a pure devotee can fall down, is it not?
Devotee: Well Narasingha Maharaja: Why many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples have fallen down you do not know. Despite spending hours together discussing and gloating over their fall down, you still do not know why they have fallen. You do not know the secrets of devotional service. How can a faithful disciple fall from Krsna consciousness, especially after having rendered so much valuable and intimate service to the spiritual master? You should stop to consider. You should consult the senior Vaisnavas and the scripture and then you will come to know that such disciples can fall down only due to aparddha and particularly Vaisnava-aparadha.