Click here to load whole tree
NITAAI-Veda.nyf > All Scriptures By Acharyas > Bhakti Bhavana Bisnu Swami > A Short Presentation on Jiva-tattva > No Fall References

No Fall References:


The living entities [jivas ] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned... [the first are] always awake to Krsna consciousness,... eternal associates.. eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 22.10-11, text) In the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text)

Websters New World Dictionary defines "infallible" as: 1- incapable of error, never wrong, 2-not liable to fail, go wrong, make a mistake etc, 3-incapable of error in setting forth doctrine on faith and morals.

The third characteristic of Vaikuntha is that one does not fall (Bhag.-sand. 61) Free jivas are never enslaved. (Vaisnavism Real and Apparent, Lecture, Bhaktisiddanta S Thakura ) The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down. (Bhag. 3.3.26, purp.) . . . a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never falls. (Bhag. 3.15.48, purp.)

The conclusion [re Jaya-Vijaya] is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

... they never fall into the material world. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.)


From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord.... it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)


The question is that, why the living entity falls down? It is not falls down. Just like Jaya-Vijaya came just to satisfy his master. His master desired fighting, so some of His servant went to the material world and became great enemy." (720405SB.MEL)


Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles)


In the spiritual world... inhabitants...They're aksara. They do not fall down. Ksara aksara. We are ksaras. We have fallen down in this material world. But there are devotees in the spiritual world, in the Vaikunthaloka, they never come down. Never come down in this material world, but they are also persons like us, but eternal persons, with full knowledge and life of blissfulness. That is the difference between them and us. (741105SB.BOM)


Statements taken as indicating that the origin of all living entities in this material world is by falling from the Lord's lila are obtained thru misinterpretation of secondary indirect statements and not primary direct statements. According to Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, one must consider direct first hand evidence rather than subsidiary indirect statements interpreted according to one's necessity. To introduce ambiguous statements and interpret them distorts the clear meaning of the primary evidence further. The Our Original Position book (OOP's) clouds the issue by presenting inconclusive arguments without answering the many contradictions pointed out in this presentation.

Sarvabhauma Battacarya tried to defeat Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with many false arguments: "The word vitanda indicates that a debater, not touching the main point or establishing his own point, simply tries to refute the other person's argument. When one does not touch the direct meaning but tries to divert attention by misinterpretation, he engages in chala. " (Cc. Madhya-lila 6.176, purp.)


For example, a verse sometimes cited as evidence of falldown is Shrimad-Bhagavatam 11.2.37,


bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad

isad apetasya viparyayo ’smrtih

tan-mayayato budha abhajet tam

bhaktyaikayesam guru-devatatma


When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord. This bewildering, fearful condition is effected by the potency for illusion, called maya.


This verse does not make any reference to liberated souls nor even to the spiritual world. No acaryas have explained this verse as indicative of falldown from Vaikuntha, indeed this verse states that this condition of turning away from the Lord is brought about by maya, which is not present in Vaikuntha (cf. Bhag 2.9.10: na yatra maya ). Proponents of the "Fall Theory" like to equate statements such as "forgetting Krsna" as synonymous with the assumption that we were with Krsna in the spiritual world and forgot Him. Shrila Prabhupada however dispelled this misunderstanding in a letter to Jagadisa Dasa in 1970:


Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature?


Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly like deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs.

The understanding that is presented here very clearly by Shrila Prabhupada is much different than that interpreted by some–that we were all originally with the Lord in His lila in the spiritual world. In the purport of this famous Bhag. 11.2.37, krsna bhuli verse (also Cc. Madhya-lila 20.117) Shrila Prabhupada explains the text of this verse, translated as "Forgetting Krsna" as meaning

When the living entity forgets his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Krsna.


Furthermore, the statements presented above of Shrila Prabhupada and other acaryas, directly refuting the fall hypothesis are completely ignored by proponents of this hypothesis without any attempt to reconcile them. Therefore the burden of proof lies with those proposing this fall theory. Additional references are available at: